What Actually Happens in the Fight.
Gourry, as submitted, is basically an attack dog. Hellmaster’s pointed him at the enemy and said “Kill.” He is going to rush in immediately, no hesitation and swing his sword.
Now that it's been established that Neptuneman's opening provides none of the advantage that my opponent was hoping for, this is outright suicidal. Death can simply wait until Gourry is in range and then summon a ghost of his Reaper Form to engage him while he's busy trying to slash through Jackie's tendrils and Darklings. Now he has multiple things to parry.
- I stand corrected about Gourry's piercing durability. But even with that clarification, Reaper Form's piercing offense is still flat-out superior, and Jackie's isn't going to be wholly ignored either.
- If Gourry survives this, it doesn't matter. All of this happening in quick succession gives Senji more than enough time to pierce himself and bring out his blades. With all of my opponent's characters having no idea how his powers work, Gourry being assailed by Darklings, tendrils and a Reaper Form ghost is likely to be a much bigger priority for their attention.
Once Senji's blades are out, his role as the mid-range death-dealer resumes. With Gourry occupied and Magnet Power being useless against him until one of two specific and unlikely requirements is met, he starts doing damage to the others immediately with the aforementioned ranged slashes he can send out. The Kinnikuman duo lacks solid ranged options that don't revolve around Magnet Power, and even with the evidence provided in favor of the duo's durability, none of it suggests that they'll be no-selling blades that can cut through significant amounts of steel with each slice in order to get within grappling range of him, especially when he has enough accuracy to slice a moving butterfly in half.
Don't think Senji will be taking them on alone, though. Jackie's tendrils are more than capable of targetting multiple people at a time, and nothing stops him from spawning Darklings behind the two of them as well.
At this point, Death will have assuredly teleported his scythe back into his hands so that he can engage Gourry once the Reaper ghost disappears. After which he beats Gourry handily, since on top of having a scythe that can pierce him and ''ample'' backup from Jackie, Death has the aforementioned telekinetic control over said scythe as well as teleportation attacks, cyclones of bone that shear through several feet of solid stone, and the ability to summon a horse for mobility.
- Said horse is equal to the horse of War, which knocks giant, many-ton monsters around just by charging into them.
If the other two aren't dead by the time Gourry is, they're fighting a 2v3 battle where they have limited ranged options against a team that can damage and kill them from any range the shipyard affords.
Any last words, /u/proletlariet ?
1
u/ProletlarietAug 06 '21edited Aug 06 '21
”ALRIGHT LITTLE MAN, FUN’S FUN, BUT I GOT PLACES TO BE. LET’S KEEP THIS A QUICK TWO ROUNDS AND MAYBE I’LL HAVE TIME TO SIGN SOME AUTOGRAPHS ON THE WAY OUT. YOU READY? ‘CAUSE THESE GOLDEN ARMS ARE LIKE SHOTGUN SHELLS, AND I’M READY TO SLAM HOME SOME COLD HARD SLUGS OF TRUTH! HERE COMES MY FINISHING MOVE---THE THREE SENTENCES OF DEATH!”
Sentence #1: Death By Magnets
”YOU LOOK LIKE A DEER IN THE HEADLAMPS, BROTHER! WHAT’S WRONG? FIRST TIME WRESTLING UNDER STAGELIGHTS? OR IS MY MAGNET POWER GETTING THROUGH TO YOU?”
Your characters are blindsided in this fight.
Everything is in my favour in terms of initiative here. As discussed, Magnet Power is active right out the gate, whereas all your guys have weapons to draw or tendrils to sprout. This places your entire team on the immediate back foot.
Neptuneman will most definitely not be hampered by his own Magnet Power by a multitude of metal surfaces, because he actually likes having those around. He uses them to transfer his magnetism through in order to attack from multiple angles. He also won’t “tax his power” pulling around a few random metal things, seeing as he pulls a massive amount of random sh*t to himself by existing in the same area and doesn’t drain himself at all because of it, boasting about how juiced he is.
Let’s talk about what magnets do to your team again.
You haven’t even bothered discussing Jackie losing his firearms and knife, which aren’t stipped out and are included in his RT as gear, so I’ll chalk that up to Neptuneman just yoinking those as a given. That’s one character suddenly down two pieces of his arsenal at the start of the fight wondering what the f*ck just happened. One character distracted.
Equally, you’ve conceded that Neptuneman gets Senji’s spiked rings. I’m sure they’ll look lovely on him. At bare minimum, that means he’ll have to pause and adapt to find some other way of drawing blood from himself, meaning a delay between the round starting and him becoming a relevant combatant. At worst… well, you’ll see later. Two characters distracted.
Death, you actually make some arguments for. Let’s go over why I don’t buy them.
You claim he won’t lose his scythe because he can teleport it and use TK. I contest the former, as he’s only shown using it to “call” his scythe midair to, not call it directly to his hand, and the second because it’s fake. Let’s look at the feat:
Death, while in Reaper Form, hurls his scythe like a spinning boomerang into a creature, where it shreds flesh for a while before returning to his hand.
The first problem I have with this is that it’s exclusive to his Reaper Form per his own RT. You haven’t stipped Death to start in Reaper Form and to access it, he needs to fill his Reaper Energy to max by killing enemies (plural) with his scythe. Not something he can trigger in time to stop Magnet Power.
The second problem is that this is just plainly not TK. It’s using his weapon as a boomerang, which is a staple move in character action games like Darksiders. For a similar example, Dante from Devil May Cry (a game Darksiders was heavily inspired by) very obviously lacks telekinesis and can perform a near identical move called Round Trip.
Death lacks TK and doesn’t can’t teleport his scythe in the way you want him to.
Your other argument has a bit more to it. You present scaling to Samael’s TK, which lifts a big rock, as evidence he could resist having the scythe pulled out of his grip. There’s a simple problem with this; Samael isn’t trying to take his scythe in this scene.
Immediately before in the same cutscene, Samael uses TK to lob Death away from him. He teleports in and tries to throw Death again, but Death raises his scythe to block it, then pushes Samael back. This is a fantastic feat for Death keeping his balance and resisting being pushed. Not so much for him keeping his grip on his scythe. Besides which, the scythe starts undrawn like all weapons. Neptuneman will have it caught in his magnetic pull before Death’s fingers wrap around the handle.
Even if we assume Samael really is trying to take his scythe here, it tells us that when someone tries to steal his weapon, Death stands there and plays tug of war instead of using his proclaimed scythe teleportation or TK. Standing still and playing tug of war is as much a sitting duck for Gourry as being weaponless and surprised is.
Speaking of Gourry, he’s fast. He can blitz Zangulus, one of the best swordsmen in his world, before he can even complete a swing. He’s also quick on the draw---while he’s relaxing at a party, Zangulus ambushes him and charges. Gourry has his sword drawn and ready to block in time anyway. Even a second of delayed response is a second your team can’t waste.
On top of the initial surprise of magnetism, there’s a second level of initiative going on here; first contact responses. Gourry has the biggest advantage here, since he’s brainwashed and without any inhibitions. Like I said, attack dog. He’ll charge as soon as the ref rings the bell. Terry and Neptuneman are also highly advantaged by living in the batsh*t insane world of Kinnikuman. There is nothing on your team they haven’t seen before.
There’s Chojin who look like normal humans like themselves, which clears Senji especially since he already looks intimidating, but the sorts of Chojin they regularly wrestle without question cover all the bases. Creepy skeleton face guy? Sure. Scary demon guy? Yeah sure, let’s wrestle Satan himself. They don’t even flinch at wrestling walking cassette players.
Conversely, the sorts of threats that exist in the settings your characters are from do not look like my guys. Gourry’s sort of spooky lookin’ in his full armour, but Terry is just a guy in a blue speedo and Neptuneman looks like a shabbier Hulk Hogan. Jackie fights demons and treats properly kitted soldiers like fodder. Death also fights demons pluis angels and generally frowns on killing helpless humans. Even Senji might be a little put off guard by the fact they don’t have any prison uniforms or collars.
There’s more;
Terryman is called The Giant Hunter because he gets especially fired up and mildly bloodlusted fighting people who are bigger than him. War is huge compared to normal humans. and Death is about as tall as War.
Neptuneman hates people who wear masks and haven’t earned it. Both Jackie and Death wear masks and haven’t won a single wrestling tourney.
Jackie and Death’s first thoughts are going to be “Huh, these are some very lost pro wrestlers who probably don’t stand a chance.” Terry and Neptuneman, meanwhile, will glance at the enemy and think “I am ready to f*ck you up.”
Neptuneman, and Terry once Magnet Power is shared with him, will also be able to freely immobilize all three of your guys as well, further exacerbating the early initiative lead I have.
It doesn’t matter how much armour Death is wearing. If he has any, he’s a fair target for Magnet Power to be lifted off the ground and immobilized.
You haven’t stipped “EoS Senji” as what you’re running so I was simply going off his most common appearance. However, if you want to play that game, “End of Series” Senji has a stump in place of his right arm, a missing eye, and refuses to use his Branch of Sin anymore. EoS Senji is an even less capable combatant than Senji with no rings. Either he’s got his death collar, or I’ve got him at a disadvantage even better than magnetism.
If Jackie isn’t already covered in metal, I can make him covered in metal. He cannot dodge this, because Kinnikuman and Terryman can’t dodge it. Your given speed for Jackie is, again, “fast compared to mook humans.” Kinnikuman is fast enough to catch a sword swing, faster than the vast majority of humans, and Terryman most assuredly has better reactions than he does, blocking a suckerpunch he fails to. If they can’t dodge while knowing Neptuneman’s full set of abilities and what to expect, Jackie can’t when he’s never even seen the man before.
- Jackie’s darkness sense simply doesn’t apply, because your stip simply states the battle takes place at night, not that it is actually dark. Not a lot of places better lit up than an airport terminal at night.
This also means no darklings, per the RT so scrap that argument.
As for how long it takes for the magnetization to happen, I’m afraid I don’t have an exact answer for you. On average matches last around 10-20 minutes, and this occured at the midpoint of 20 Million Powers vs Hell’s Missionaries… sooo 5 to 10 minutes?
You might be right this fight won’t last long enough for it to kick in
”BECAUSE IT’LL ONLY LAST LONG ENOUGH FOR THE REF TO COUNT TEN ONCE YOU HIT THE FLOOR! OOH YEAH!”
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u/ProletlarietAug 06 '21edited Aug 06 '21
Sentence #2: Death By Ignorance
”LEMME TELL YA SOMETHING BROTHER, TO ME YOU’RE ALL DIME A DOZEN. SCYTHES, DEMONS, BLOOD MAGIC, AIN’T A RING GIMMICK I HAVEN’T SEEN. BUT ME? YOU AIN’T SEEN NOTHIN’ LIKE ME; I’M NUMBER ONE!”
My characters fight in ways yours can’t handle; Gourry thanks to cut good and holy weapon, the Kinnikuman duo because they grapple and none of your characters do.
Both Neptuneman and Terryman are consummate grapplers. As you have not presented lifting strength, both style on your goon squad with sick holds.
What sick holds, you might ask?
Terryman:
His Texas Clover Hold is incredibly painful. So painful in fact, that Sunshine, a Devil Chojin sworn to always fight matches to the death who gets flayed down to the bone by an attack and keeps fighting anyway, chooses to surrender rather than continue to suffer its pain. Pain bypasses your silly regen. In fact, staying up means they keep feeling it.
Immediately shatters Mantaro’s leg and hip bones in a Texas Clover Hold. Mantaro has legs that regularly stand up to buster moves that crater stone. How strong are the bones in your characters’ legs? Death in particular had his bones shattered just from being pressed against the floor by a heavy stone slab.
Shatters King the 100 Ton’s metal body with his Calf Branding hold. His body is, in fact, 100t of the hardest metal Terry’s ever seen before.
Neptuneman:
Tears Kendaman in half with the Quarrel Special. Kendaman, whose body is Hardness 10, just laughs at the Hurricane Mixer, which sends a huge stone cube whirling up into the air. Proof the cube ring is stone.
Hurts Kinnikuman so bad with a backbreaker that he can’t move for a while. Kinnikuman’s still fighting after a barrage of Hurricane Mixers. He doesn’t even break his hold for a flurry of punches and kicks from Neptune King who can kick a hole in a mountain.
Makes Buffaloman faint with two magnet-boosted suplexes. Buffaloman powered through two suplexes and a vicious beating from Mammothman who can throw around trains.
Without demonstrated strength feats, a single slip gets any one of your dudes into a grappling match they can’t win and can’t hold out against. Since none of your characters also have any evidence of even encountering a grapple. Just being pulled into a wrestling hold will likely be a first time experience for Senji, Death, or Jackie they have no idea how to react to.
And just as a reminder, any move they dodge can be converted a hold, or into a tag move like the Cross Bomber.
That is, if they survive Gourry’s initial charge.
Let’s go over your presented cutting resistance again:
- You claim that Senji is not pierced by bayonets or gunshots or by his own steel cutting Crow Claw. However, it is demonstrably true that small serrated metal ring blades can make him bleed. You also claim that he can cut himself with his own teeth.
You can’t have it both ways. So, which is it? Neither option looks good for you. If Senji’s skin is unpierceable and his ring blades are just really sharp, then once Neptuneman steals the rings at the start of the fight, Senji has no way to use Crow Claw, making him useless. If Senji’s skin is actually pierceable by things like human teeth and small metal blades, then Gourry bisects him with one sweep of his sword.
- You claim that Jackie won’t be cut because an inferior Darkness host took a blade that cut a torso’s width of metal and circuits in half.
I can play that game too. An inferior replica of the Sword of Light chops through a solid stone boulder larger than a torso. My “inferior” is better than yours.
- Death, you haven’t really provided any piercing res, instead implying that he could do some big counter move involving a ghost of his reaper form to stop Gourry’s swing.
This won’t work. In the gif, the creature he uses the counter move against has an incredibly sluggish and telegraphed attack. Gourry, as discussed, is speed fast man. Furthermore, the Sword of Light disperses ghosts on contact including evil spirits too potent to be dispersed by the Astral Break exorcism spell. Magnet Power also kills ghosts.
On the subject of exorcism, let’s address that. You claim that a quote from the Slayers Wiki sourcing the LN can dispute the status of Mazoku as demons. I’m sorry, but that’s silly. I wouldn’t cite that The Darkness video game adaptation arguing against Jackie. I’m running the Slayers anime please don’t use unrelated media outside of that.
Speaking of; you described The Darkness as “the embodiment of chaos, evil, disorder and darkness." That’s the exact same way the powerful Mazoku Ruby Eyes Shabranigdo is described in the anime. Zanaffar, who is explicitly equivalent to Shabranigdo was killed by the Sword of Light and badly wounded by an inferior copy.
You claim that Death would resist the SoL because he resisted this vague thing but nothing about this gif tells me of the strength of the darkness being cleansed where I can tell you for a fact, even somebody possessed by a weakened Zanaffar could nuke a city and be fine standing at the centre of it.
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u/ProletlarietAug 06 '21
Sentence #3: Death By Perfection
”PERFECT BODY. PERFECT TECHNIQUES. PERFECT POWER. THEY CALL ME A PERFECT CHOJIN FOR A REASON YOU’RE GONNA LEARN REAL SOON, ‘CAUSE SCHOOL’S IN SESSION, AND TODAY’S LESSON IS NEPTUNEMANIA!”
My characters’ are simply too physically powerful for yours.
Let’s do some statposting, I haven’t done that yet.
Neptuneman:
Str:
Dura:
Collides with Scarface in a full body slam. Scarface can crater a bunch of stone with a slam.
Takes a Megaton King Drop kick from Neptune King and stands up. Neptune King can kick a hole in a mountain.
Agility:
Dashes through the forest leaping off trees in a blur of motion.
Mad hops, leaps high and latches on to the passing time ship.
Terry:
Str:
Punches are able to badly dent Strong the Budo's chest. Strong the Budo's body has Hardness 10, equal to Akuma Shogun who isn't bothered by a Hurricane Mixer attack that sends a huge stone cube spinning up into the air.
Dura:
Takes a Tornado Hell from Asuraman. The Tornado Hell can demolish a Berlin Wall watchtower.
Agility:
Dodges attacks from Warsman and Buffaloman charging him together. Warsman destroys lots of Ramenman dummies in 5 seconds. and blitzes a large group of Chojin faster than they can react.
Mad hops. Uses a leaping Calf Branding and stays airborne for more than 10 seconds.
Gourry:
Str:
Cuts through a tree top to bottom using a normal metal sword.
Keeps a boulder from sliding down a spike and crushing him by pushing against it with his legs.
Dura:
Cratered into a crystal floor by Halcyform’s TK He’s not happy, but alright to keep fighting after.
Takes a point blank blast from Zanaffar-possessed Rezo to his forehead and gets back on his feet. Rezo’s magic blasts carve up a massive tree limb.
Flat out ignores Sylphiel‘s Flare Arrow. 1 2 Her Flare Arrow can blast a hole through a stone wall.
Agility:
Barely has to pay attention to dodge strikes from a monster.
So agile swinging and leaping off tree branches that Pokota questions if he’s even human.
Mad hops. 1, 2
By comparison:
Death:
A hit that sends him through trees makes him go owie oofie. This is literally Netuneman’s striking feat.
Jackie:
Senji:
The difference is stark and pretty clear.
”AIN’T NO SUBSTITUTE FOR PERFECTION, BROTHER!”
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u/MrKingOfNegativityAug 06 '21
- My team has the advantage in effective range, can dole out numerous piercing attacks greater than what the opposing team has survived, has both a strong offense and a solid defense in their strategy, and is generally more survivable than the opposing team.
- Jackie's speed/reactive feat posted at the beginning of the match demonstrates that his reactions are well into superhuman territory and will allow him to send out and react to attacks faster than anyone else.
- The majority of my opponent's arguments based on Magnet Power and his team's chances at close-range rely heavily on incomplete and false information as well as a few outright wrong assumptions in regards to my characters, and Magnet Power itself (the biggest crux of those arguments) either does next to nothing or ends up countered/circumvented by the things my team is capable of.
- Gourry's opening strategy of running straight at his opposition gets him killed against my team's setup, as he will be running straight into a situation where he is attacked from multiple angles while being engaged by someone with much greater versatility than him.
- With Magnet Power being far less effective than my opponent suggests it will be, the Kinnikuman duo have no good answers against Senji's ranged piercing attacks supported by Jackie's tendrils and Darklings, nor do they have the piercing durability feats to last against either. The sheer accuracy of these attacks also means they won't be dodging them.
- If the duo should survive, they will be at a 2v3 disadvantage against characters who have them beat in several important and decisive categories and can damage and kill them at any range, 2/3 of which should be outright immune to Magnet Power for the duration of the fight.
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